7/20/2009

Once can be an error, but twice ? Oh Mr Murray what a lack of honesty

I criticised Craig Murray a few weeks back for failing to understand that placing election posters on road signs, traffic lights, street lights, etc, was not something that was done in Norwich or Norfolk and that it was out of order for him to turn up in Norfolk claiming to be local (after claiming to be a Scottish before) when clearly he was not following the rules.

After this Mr Murray's cronies weighed in, even quoting the Town and Country Planning Act as justification (whilst ignoring the fact that this relates to election posters on the land of people who have given permission, not for the placing of placards, on County Council property), with not one of his people saying simply that they had made an honest mistake, and I stress "honest". But oh, not Mr Murray.

Instead today, Mr Murray's posters adorn street lamps, road signs and other street furniture all around the ring road, with a particular focus on the area surrounding the Lib Dem HQ. These went up after dark last night. Now the first time, Mr Murray might have had an excuse. But I know that he now knows that this is not an acceptable electoral practise locally and that by flyposting again he is choosing to ignore this previous advice. It does make me wonder how honest he is.

But what is more odd, and I can't for the life of me work this out, a number of Lib Dem posters similarly went missing in that area after dark last night.

Now I am sure an honest man like Mr Murray wouldn't have his supporters take these posters, but it is a very strange coincidence isn't it ?

Update : Craig Murray assures us in the comments section that he had nothing to do with the removal of posters so we must assume that there was another team of people out that night, in the same area, who were removing Lib Dem posters. I offer my apologies to him for making the assumption that he was in any way involved.

30 comments:

Anonymous said...

Nich

I think your blog is doing a great job promoting democracy, but don't you think you are just a wee bit obsessed negatively about Craig Murray?

CM spoke well and positively at the PCS hustings the other night and deserves to be heard.

Why are you picking on him?

Cheers

Michael Walker

Norfolk Blogger said...

I have criticised him for the same thing twice. If he stopped doing it I wouldn't criticise. I am not the only person who thinks what he is doing is out of order.

There is a long tradition of people having poster boards on their own land or in places where they have written permission for them to go. In Norwich and Norfolk there is, thankfully, no history of this and it is not encouraged at all by the authorities.

Where it does happen you ahve a free for all involving all the political parties taking advantage and it does nothing to serve democracy.

As for Mr Murray, when I raised the issue, there was no hint of a "whoops" or "Sorry, made a mistake, won't happen again". Instead he threatened to do it again to wind people up and repeatedly slagged of my blog. These are not the words of actions of a man who really cares for demcoracy or free speech. If you criticise him he attacks you personally but does not address the issue.

That's why I choose not to promote him. Why does he need it anyway, he's a brazen self publicist.

Frank said...

Let me preface my remarks by saying that I am a lifetime Lib Dem, a founder of the current party and a local ofice bearer. I find it strange for the first time not supporting my party in a by-election in my political lifetime.

Craig is a distinguished candidate who has given up a career in public service for the absolute basics of liberalism... the right not to be tortured and the ethics of parliamentary democracy that we do not engage with those who abuse other human beings. It is core to my Liberal soul. I understand fully the rules to prevent every nutter who stands as an independent being allowed equal TV access; but a former British Ambassador who has provided evidence of some of the foulest deeds of a Prime Minister is not Screaming Lord Sutch. Our party's candidate has access to far more access to the media and to resources than Craig has so lets not worry too much if he has to find other ways. Craig Murray and Nick Clegg ask why we are letting young British soldiers die in Afghanistan... does the Lib Dem candidate in NN?

Our system has to find a way to empower credible independent candidates without swamping the media with the fringe and that is not easy to do within the bounds of legislation. Unfortunately the BBC is running scared of upsetting the Government (Jack Straw stands to lose most from Craig's election) and it benefits us to sit on our hands and do nothing... Liberals need to change the system, even where it may limit our own prospects.

Frank

Norfolk Blogger said...

I hope your resignation is in the post.

Perhaps I could come to your part of the world and lecture you on who you should elect, irrespective of how many rules that candidate may have broken.

Anonymous said...

A Scot writing about another Scot where sticking posters on lamps is prefectly normal. In Norfolk, it isn't (scuse the pun) 'Normal for Norfolk'.

Seems he's taking the proverbial out of the locals by ignoring rules. Odd as he is critical of politicians for breaking rules.

Anonymous said...

Frank, what of the missing Lib Dem posters. It's no BS to state that Murray posters appeared everywhere overnight and that Lib Dems leaving the HQ very late on Sunday noticed our signs were still up and no Murray posters had been stuck up but in the morning Murray posters everywhere and Lib Dem posters removed.

If this is the sort of guy you can bring yourself to support then you are no liberal.

Craig Murray said...

Anonymous

I was with the team that stuck up our posters. We did not remove any LibDem posters, or any other posters, for that matter.

Tristan said...

Where it does happen you ahve a free for all involving all the political parties taking advantage and it does nothing to serve democracy.

Only if democracy is the preservation of the existing political classes and the establishment parties (which includes the LibDems and the Greens, and almost the LPUK).

Quite your whingeing - perhaps Craig went against local custom, but its a minor offense.
The only reason you're complaining is because he's a threat to the establishment and the political classes.

I thank you at least for helping me more sure in my view of electoral and party politics as bickering between the ruling classes and a distraction from the real business of shafting those being ruled over.

Norfolk Blogger said...

Tristan, you are lucky to live where Mr Murray has not bene campaigning. Attack leaflets on the Tory (which put anything we have done to shame) and late night flyposting are two examples. But from your ivory tower you can speak with some knowledge about the campaign here ?

I'd have been shocked if you had agreed with me on anything anyway. After all, black is very much white when ever you have commented on my blog.

Molly said...

Norfolk Blogger:

I think you would be well advised to read the update on Craig Murray's blog on the subject of posters removed:

"Silly Lib Dem Accusation - And The Mystery Solved"

(And I would strongly advise that you refrain from jumping to conclusions in future.)

Norfolk Blogger said...

I assumed ge had written somethong due to the abusivecomments I have received this afternoon. Some of his supporters could learn some manners. At least you has the courtesy to be polite. Perhaps mr Murray might address my point on flyposting now.

Ed P said...

Silly NB!
Are you getting your sour grapes in before the result? All because Craig might just push the LDs into 3rd or 4th place? Aaahh, shame!

Frank said...

I would say that in the height of a by-election where everyone is very territorial and partisan they throw around allegations that on reflection may be rather far fetched. It strikes me to pull one candidate's posters down and replace them directly with your own is pretty obvious in even the worst-run campaign. Throwing the dirt around publicly casts as bad a shadow on you as those you accuse. Any experienced campaign would have the agents talk to one another.

Campaign positively guys... that's the way that you'll get a Liberal MP in the long run...

Anonymous said...

Stop slagging off Craig Murray. It is boring nonsense. The House of Commons is full of Punch & Judy already and we need some changes - please.

LibDems have been so sensible about the economy, about Iraq + Afghanistan, about Trident. Now you throw us back to the Stone Age with making unsupported accusations about other candidates.

Please grow up.

Tony

Norfolk Blogger said...

What is unsubstantiated ? He admits himself the flyposting and his tory attack Leary is a matter of public record. I received it yesterday and I will post it to this blog layer. That will shatter a few illusions.

craig murray said...

Nich,

Attacking Tories is always a good thing. Everything contained in the leaflet is 100% true. What is wrong with it?

Daniel Hoffmann-Gill said...

To echo many here, leave Craig alone, he's a good man trying to bring some truth and honesty back into politics and the way he has been shut out of the process and smeared with nonsense over here (and other places) reeks of fear and desperation.

Just a thought.

David Hamilton said...

I think its a sad view on British Polotics as a whole that candidates and their supporters feel the constant need to attack each other over anything at all. Whats wrong with attacking each others policys ? The constant push to make the other candidate look bad rather than working to make themselves look good is tiresome and boring. I support Craig in his efforts to get elected, as personally I feel that we do need more independant candidates in parliment. The old party structures are simply not providing the population with value, either financial or moral. Unfortunately our system doesnt make it easy for independants to get access to mass media. So Craig had to "fly post" its not the end of the world is it ? Make the system fairer and it wouldnt happen. That said even Craig has now lowered himself to attacking the oppositions candidate rather than the policys. Maybe there really is no hope for real proper democratic debate in this country anymore.

Anonymous said...

wow... i didnt realise lib dems talked such bull

Anonymous said...

Norfolk Blogger

I have looked at all this with an open mind and...

You owe Craig Murray an apology. You got it WRONG be big enough and say it.

Norfolk Blogger said...

He admits to flyposting - This is wrong.

He says he wants to clean up politics but puts out an "attack" leaflet slagging off the Tory.

So what is your justification for your opinion ?

Norfolk Blogger said...

I tell you what, I have offered an apology on the story.

Now how about an apology to the people of Broadland for the flyposting ?

Anonymous said...

"Now how about an apology to the people of Broadland for the flyposting ?"

Norfolk Blogger

As I said,"I have looked at all this with an open mind and"...

Why should Craig Murray give an apology?. He has done nothing wrong or is this from his web site a lie?...


"we refute any of the allegations of flyposting aimed at us, all posters put out by the Craig Murray campaign were intended to be removed within 14 days after the election, something we discussed at lenght, thats the law in the United Kingdom and we have not broken its rubberoid interpretations."

Norfolk Blogger,I don`t understand what you are going on about???.

Anonymous said...

"He says he wants to clean up politics but puts out an "attack" leaflet slagging off the Tory."

"So what is your justification for your opinion ?"

It`s an election,thats how the public get to know things. If we all agreed about everything we would not need electios.It`s the way it works Norfolk Blogger.

Alan said...

Norfolk Blogger wrote: "it was out of order for him to turn up in Norfolk claiming to be local (after claiming to be a Scottish)"

and Alan says: According to wiki, Craig Murray was born in West Runton, Norfolk, and grew up in Sheringham. He then went to university at the University of Dundee, and is now the current Rector of the University of Dundee. So his claims to be variously 'a Scottish' (sic) and local to Norfolk both seem to me to be entirely reasonable. I wonder if Mr Murray's biggest crime, in the view of Norfolk Blogger, is that he is (again according to wiki) a *former* member of the Liberal Party? In fact it seems to me very disappointing that a member of our current LibDem party, instead of concentrating on trying to highlight and neutralise some of the more blatant of the Blair and Brown governments' many civil rights abuses (as Mr Murray has done for a long time), seems obsessed with irrelevant minutiae such as where he sticks his election posters (get a life, for goodness' sake!). It seems to me that Mr Murray's biggest crime has been to stand against a Liberal Democrat. Or am I just an old cynic...?

Daniel Hoffmann-Gill said...

At lease Craig beat the BNP!

Anonymous said...

How you expect your blog to retain any credibility after your childish and unsubstantiated attack on Craig Murray is beyond me...
Here is a man who has brought to light many injustices and human rights abuses sanctioned by our own government putting his career on the line to do so.
If one person saw those posters and decided to read up about the disgraceful way in which our government and the media treats those who seek to expose the truth, regardless of their own political affiliations, then it was worth it.

calgacus said...

You're right Daniel; he did beat the BNP and in only 2 weeks, while they'd been campaigning in the constituency for years.

Norfolk Blogger - Some people might think that with terrorism, global warming, Iraq, Afghanistan and mass unemployment among other issues that repeated posts attacking Craig Murray for fly-posting shows either a complete lack of any sense of proportion or else a personal vendetta.

Fly posting involves putting some posters up with a light backing. Any council worker with a pair of cutters can take them down in no time. So why are you getting so worked up over it?

Norfolk Blogger said...

And all his fans ignore his attack leaflet.

Nothing like closing your eyes is there.

http://norfolkblogger.blogspot.com/2009/07/murray-attack-leaflet.html

Daniel Hoffmann-Gill said...

There is something about you that smacks of the desperate, it is clear that Craig Murray is not a bad man and his motives are good, you try and frame that leaflet as an 'attack letter' but that is a subjective view.

And as the election is over you can let it go now duck.

And breath...

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