tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33696095.post1108447109704346406..comments2024-03-20T16:27:56.522+00:00Comments on Norfolk Blogger: Iain Dale does not know what a liberal is !Nich Starlinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04237390959601973501noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33696095.post-16083394479066251532008-01-05T14:06:00.000+00:002008-01-05T14:06:00.000+00:00My response to this got a bit long, so I've posted...My response to this got a bit long, so I've <A HREF="http://www.gavinwhenman.com/2008/01/05/on-equality-and-gay-hate-crime/" REL="nofollow">posted my thoughts here</A>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33696095.post-4076696790167597322008-01-05T13:07:00.000+00:002008-01-05T13:07:00.000+00:00I think we know our views on liberalism differ.I think we know our views on liberalism differ.Nich Starlinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04237390959601973501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33696095.post-31161717673045857882008-01-05T12:38:00.000+00:002008-01-05T12:38:00.000+00:00I think Iain is closer to correct:Liberalism is fo...I think Iain is closer to correct:<BR/><BR/>Liberalism is founded not upon open mindedness (although liberals tend to be) but upon equality under the law and individual liberty.<BR/><BR/>Legislation like this not only treats people as a collective, not as individuals, it also violates equality under the law and individual freedom.<BR/><BR/>Race hate laws are illiberal, they place a ban on some speech, they treat some crimes differently depending upon the perpetrator and victim.<BR/><BR/>If someone harms someone else, that should be enough to prosecute.<BR/><BR/>The final point is that such legislation only comes about when society has itself decided that such behaviour is unacceptable - it is therefore an unecessary extension of state power.Tristanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15395992764678278326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33696095.post-17527589992232278472008-01-05T09:43:00.000+00:002008-01-05T09:43:00.000+00:00Bu taking your point of view Iain means we would n...Bu taking your point of view Iain means we would never have introduced any legislation. The "where do we draw the line" argument is the argumnt of people who would have not introduced legislation to protect people of different races.Nich Starlinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04237390959601973501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33696095.post-29091671702389318192008-01-04T22:12:00.000+00:002008-01-04T22:12:00.000+00:00Whenever anyone says "I'll not take lessons from" ...Whenever anyone says "I'll not take lessons from" it invariably means they have lost the argument. Gordon Brown does it most weeks in PMQs.<BR/><BR/>The point I was making is where do you draw the line? Haven't we already got laws which punish people for hate crimes? Using this precedent we will end up with similar laws for the disabled, giner haired people, people with spots and for Norfolk school teachers!Iain Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.com